This is a very thoughtful podcast, Carol. I am a 62 year old lesbian and it always warms my heart to hear women in generations after me use the word. It’s never been easy for women to prioritize themselves or claim things for themselves in a society that is male-centered. Today, gender ideology had made things worse by socially coercing women to obscure or erase their femaleness, all in the name of “inclusivity.” It’s not surprising to me that the word “lesbian” is spurned more today than it was back in 1980 when I came out, and when the world was less accepting of homosexuality. Gender ideology has rendered the word “women” itself verboten, particularly in contexts that refer to uniquely female experiences and capacities (pregnant people, people with cervixes). Describing oneself by using the word “lesbian” is a subtle but powerful way of saying “no” to gender ideology.
This is phenomenal Carol, thank you so much for sharing. I really appreciate specifically your discussion of how butch women cannot cure their self esteem issues with the love of a partner, each woman must chose to work to overcome those issues and build her self confidence by herself.
I wanted to share a thought on the word "Queer" here, after listening to your thoughts on it in the podcast.
As a Gen Z lesbian who has been out for a long time, I developed a real revulsion to the word queer, as I expected all of the people who used it to come after me for being a "TERF" for being an exclusive homosexual woman. This was based on a pattern of horrible experiences while in college in the late 2010s. Later, I gained more revulsion towards that term as I began to associate it with the cringe politics and performative TikTok videos under that label.
Now I've been revisting my feelings towards queer, and also looking at more pictures and images from events like MichFest, and I'm realizing that the queer women's community is substantially quite similar to what existed at women's events, and that to some extent my discomfort with the word "queer" is actually to some extent reflective of internalized homophobia. At one point, I didn't like the word queer beause I felt it defined homosexuality by difference and being negatively regarded by outside society, but at some point that morphed into hating myself for being different. And now that I'm out of a university setting, I rarely encounter people using the word queer to mean polyamorous or kinky heterosexuals. So I'm thinking I should change my attitude towards the word queer, if it really means LGB to most people.
I still really dislike queer theory and some of the more extreme ideas, but I think that the more common use of queer among my Gen Z peers is just as a world for lesbianism that also includes bisexual women practicing lesbianism, or for the aesthetics around female homosexuality / gender non-conformity in general, so I'm trying to see if i can embrace the word queer and develop some positive feelings towards it.
Later today I'm releasing a post that talks more about ways of relating to LGBT/queer institutions as a lesbian that elaborates a bit more on these ideas
Yeah, I am 44 so I knew the word queer both as a horrible slur usually associated with violence and a word some of us reclaimed. Queer had a history with gays and lesbians. Unfortunately like everything else it’s been expanded so much that it means nothing anymore. I do not like it used as a blanket identity for all LGB folks though. And I really hate it being mainstreamed as the official word used to describe gay people. It’s a word that can be reclaimed only by same sex attracted people. I personally never liked it and don’t use it, but I recognize its history and that some homosexuals will use it.
She talks about how the word woman means oppressor now. It's the same thing with lesbian, politically, in identity politics structure: it's a woman who is oppressive towards men who want to have their kink of being a woman validated by the "genital fetishists" aka discriminatory lesbian women.
So, not only that the word lesbian doesn't mean the same as 50 years ago, it has been completely corrupted in identity politics of the liberal class since the 60's and the hippie movement and it's byproduct of women opting into lesbianism for the sake of differentiation from the moral of the 60's: love, live, laugh. The sexual mores of the time is "freeing" sex from reproduction for women (the pill) and the second de-generation of the same sexual moral of the 60's is this post 2000's era: detaching sexual from the norm of the sexed body.
No wonder women in the West are unaware that what was once "contra-culture" became the winner, the establishment of the neoliberal period in the US.
Kids today think they are participating in the "trans" contraculture haha, and not even see the fact that this has been completely integrated into the mainstream, establishment culture.
They don't see that when they go to Pride (or any other event) that what they are participating in is the mainstream not a rebellion of the oppressed.
This is why I don't see the reason for anyone who had a bad time (let's call it extremely euphemistically like that) in the latest deny the sexed body culture, to continue participating in it.
One can't make a change in the "LGBT" narrative until one drops the "identity" of a lesbian / bisexual/ straight woman.
To keep insisting "representation matters" nowadays is to say "lesbians socially reproduce" just as the "trans" identity does.
I do believe thathaving sex with the same sex and the accompanying life around it, is not such an important factor in one's experiences in life.
There are numerous other factors that should be much more important to each of us, than who we sleep with.
Yet, the identity politics is supported and massively marketed by the establishment to not let you get out of the whole "oppressed" people production. It has nothing to with reality. So many lesbians or gays have nothing in common amongst each other and they are not a "community" of any sorts. This is why there's no win over the malingnancy of the "trans" identity if you're not ready to radically say to people: I don't need fucking representatives in the establishment to protect my way of life.
Yet, that time has not still come, so the whole circus keeps doing the harm.
This is a very thoughtful podcast, Carol. I am a 62 year old lesbian and it always warms my heart to hear women in generations after me use the word. It’s never been easy for women to prioritize themselves or claim things for themselves in a society that is male-centered. Today, gender ideology had made things worse by socially coercing women to obscure or erase their femaleness, all in the name of “inclusivity.” It’s not surprising to me that the word “lesbian” is spurned more today than it was back in 1980 when I came out, and when the world was less accepting of homosexuality. Gender ideology has rendered the word “women” itself verboten, particularly in contexts that refer to uniquely female experiences and capacities (pregnant people, people with cervixes). Describing oneself by using the word “lesbian” is a subtle but powerful way of saying “no” to gender ideology.
Thanks for posting, your perspective is a breath of fresh air <3
This is phenomenal Carol, thank you so much for sharing. I really appreciate specifically your discussion of how butch women cannot cure their self esteem issues with the love of a partner, each woman must chose to work to overcome those issues and build her self confidence by herself.
“What goes on in one’s head and what is reality can often times be two very different things” — great way to put it, Carol. Really good episode.
Thank you
I wanted to share a thought on the word "Queer" here, after listening to your thoughts on it in the podcast.
As a Gen Z lesbian who has been out for a long time, I developed a real revulsion to the word queer, as I expected all of the people who used it to come after me for being a "TERF" for being an exclusive homosexual woman. This was based on a pattern of horrible experiences while in college in the late 2010s. Later, I gained more revulsion towards that term as I began to associate it with the cringe politics and performative TikTok videos under that label.
Now I've been revisting my feelings towards queer, and also looking at more pictures and images from events like MichFest, and I'm realizing that the queer women's community is substantially quite similar to what existed at women's events, and that to some extent my discomfort with the word "queer" is actually to some extent reflective of internalized homophobia. At one point, I didn't like the word queer beause I felt it defined homosexuality by difference and being negatively regarded by outside society, but at some point that morphed into hating myself for being different. And now that I'm out of a university setting, I rarely encounter people using the word queer to mean polyamorous or kinky heterosexuals. So I'm thinking I should change my attitude towards the word queer, if it really means LGB to most people.
I still really dislike queer theory and some of the more extreme ideas, but I think that the more common use of queer among my Gen Z peers is just as a world for lesbianism that also includes bisexual women practicing lesbianism, or for the aesthetics around female homosexuality / gender non-conformity in general, so I'm trying to see if i can embrace the word queer and develop some positive feelings towards it.
Later today I'm releasing a post that talks more about ways of relating to LGBT/queer institutions as a lesbian that elaborates a bit more on these ideas
Yeah, I am 44 so I knew the word queer both as a horrible slur usually associated with violence and a word some of us reclaimed. Queer had a history with gays and lesbians. Unfortunately like everything else it’s been expanded so much that it means nothing anymore. I do not like it used as a blanket identity for all LGB folks though. And I really hate it being mainstreamed as the official word used to describe gay people. It’s a word that can be reclaimed only by same sex attracted people. I personally never liked it and don’t use it, but I recognize its history and that some homosexuals will use it.
Will you put the audio only version on the podcast on Spotify?
That is my to do list. Get it up everywhere I can.
That was such a treat, thank you for sharing!
Your thoughts and story pinged me in so many ways.
The temptation to overshare is strong but I'm going to hold back.
I hope lots of women, young and old, tune in and listen.
You have a lovely way about you, and it's refreshing. Cheers
Oh, I definitely use the word lesbian.
I would recommend Carol ro listen to this interview: https://open.substack.com/pub/savageminds/p/kajsa-ekis-ekman
She talks about how the word woman means oppressor now. It's the same thing with lesbian, politically, in identity politics structure: it's a woman who is oppressive towards men who want to have their kink of being a woman validated by the "genital fetishists" aka discriminatory lesbian women.
So, not only that the word lesbian doesn't mean the same as 50 years ago, it has been completely corrupted in identity politics of the liberal class since the 60's and the hippie movement and it's byproduct of women opting into lesbianism for the sake of differentiation from the moral of the 60's: love, live, laugh. The sexual mores of the time is "freeing" sex from reproduction for women (the pill) and the second de-generation of the same sexual moral of the 60's is this post 2000's era: detaching sexual from the norm of the sexed body.
No wonder women in the West are unaware that what was once "contra-culture" became the winner, the establishment of the neoliberal period in the US.
Kids today think they are participating in the "trans" contraculture haha, and not even see the fact that this has been completely integrated into the mainstream, establishment culture.
They don't see that when they go to Pride (or any other event) that what they are participating in is the mainstream not a rebellion of the oppressed.
This is why I don't see the reason for anyone who had a bad time (let's call it extremely euphemistically like that) in the latest deny the sexed body culture, to continue participating in it.
One can't make a change in the "LGBT" narrative until one drops the "identity" of a lesbian / bisexual/ straight woman.
To keep insisting "representation matters" nowadays is to say "lesbians socially reproduce" just as the "trans" identity does.
I do believe thathaving sex with the same sex and the accompanying life around it, is not such an important factor in one's experiences in life.
There are numerous other factors that should be much more important to each of us, than who we sleep with.
Yet, the identity politics is supported and massively marketed by the establishment to not let you get out of the whole "oppressed" people production. It has nothing to with reality. So many lesbians or gays have nothing in common amongst each other and they are not a "community" of any sorts. This is why there's no win over the malingnancy of the "trans" identity if you're not ready to radically say to people: I don't need fucking representatives in the establishment to protect my way of life.
Yet, that time has not still come, so the whole circus keeps doing the harm.